“H ave you made up all these on your own?” asks Terry Butcher, sitting in a London office in the week he is presented with his England legacy cap. It turns out dozens of Guardian readers want to pick the brains of a much-loved centre-back who was feted en route to a World Cup semi-final and tormented four years previously by the mercurial genius of Diego Maradona.
Did Maradona ever admit to the “Hand of God”? Butcher found himself in the post-match doping-control room alongside his nemesis at the Azteca in 1986. “I tapped my head, then my hand, and then he tapped his head,” Butcher says. “He didn’t admit to it because, if he had, I’d have been right across that room.”
The highs and lows of Sir Bobby Robson’s remarkable England tenure are chronicled in a new book co-written by Butcher: Almost Immortal: When Bobby Robson’s England Gripped The Nation.
Your name instantly brings to mind you playing on for England with a bandaged head and bloodied shirt. With hindsight, should you have left the pitch? Sian Williams
I never contemplated leaving the pitch at all. As the captain of your country, playing in a crucial World Cup qualifier against the top team in our league, in our group, there’s no way. I said to Bobby: “If you take me off, I’ll hit you.” I don’t think I would have but I said: “No, don’t do it!” Initially, I felt the blood and it seemed like a bad one, quite severe, but when I was bandaged up I could still play and it wasn’t a problem. Heading the ball wasn’t an issue because you’re really fired up, the adrenaline’s there, so it didn’t concern me. There was no way I was going to voluntarily come off unless Bobby was of a mind to do that, but he knew my pain threshold very well and knew I would battle on. I had numerous injuries before, broke my nose in 1982, five weeks in hospital and lost a lot of blood. So he knew I had great fortitude. Things have changed dramatically now. From a medical point of view it would have been right to take me off, absolutely. But that was then and I think, as a captain, you have to lead. It’s nice that people remember me through that image, but I was just doing my job.
I once stayed at the hotel that forms part of the FA’s headquarters at St George’s Park. Above the bed, and hanging over my wife and me all night long, was a giant version of the photo of you covered in blood. It was a bit disconcerting – but what’s the strangest place you stayed in or visited while on England duty? Stu Egan
I’ve actually stayed in that room as well. Stu has told us what it was like for him and I have to say it wasn’t great for me either. I’m staring up looking at me with a bloodied head and thinking: “Oh my God, this has followed me around.” At least when you close your eyes and sleep you don’t have to see it, but I’m sorry he had to stay there.
I didn’t stay in many really strange places with England. When I was manager of Motherwell we had a Scottish Cup quarter-final and were in administration at the time. I was organising our travel myself and booked a hotel near Stranraer, online. It looked great, right by a golf course. But when we got there we realised it was a residential home for the elderly. The rooms had accessibility handles and low sinks. It wasn’t a horrible place at all, quite the opposite, it was very warm and caring. But it was strange coming down for breakfast seeing people being looked after by the nurses. We won 4-0 so it can’t have been bad for us.
Now that time has passed and Diego has left us, has your perspective on that afternoon in Mexico City softened at all, or do you feel a professional duty to history to never let the “Hand of God” be forgotten? Victor Segovia
My feelings haven’t changed and they won’t. But I’ve learned to live with it better, I’ve learned to get through it and I’m not so annoyed by the memory. You’re just disappointed it happened. It had an influence on the game because we went one down and I think a lot of the players were shocked by what happened. Half the team saw it, half didn’t. I was one of the ones who didn’t. It had a big part to play in the fact we didn’t get switched on again and conceded the second goal. I’m more disappointed because he beat me twice. You’ve got to respect the man and respect what he did for the second goal, and what he did in that game. He was the best player I’ve played against and one that I never really got near.
Maradona’s “wondergoal” – it was really an own goal by you as you did a desperate sliding tackle, wasn’t it? David
If I’d got a touch I’d have raised my hand straight away and admitted it was the best own goal I’d ever scored. He went past Peter Shilton and I managed to get back, but I couldn’t see the ball so I was kind of feeling around him with my left foot. I couldn’t get my right foot across, but I thought I could block it. I was so surprised when he made good contact and put it in the net because I thought: “I’ve got this.” You can see me afterwards on the TV, I’m banging my shinpads, I was so angry. I was more angry about that goal than I was the “Hand of God” goal. So I’d have loved to claim that one. I know it sounds bizarre but it would have been one of my greatest achievements. Would it still have been the greatest goal scored at a World Cup?
In the early 80s you had a brilliant side at Portman Road so I wondered if you have: “If only …” or “What if …” moments about that time. It has always felt to me that Ipswich left another big trophy or two out there. Stooze
We did. The 1980-81 season was arguably the best in our history. We lost the FA Cup semi-final, lost the league title on the last day of the season and then had to play the Uefa Cup final, which thankfully we won. It’s always at the back of your mind that you missed out on what you should have got, which was the treble. We should have done it. But I think the 66-game season was just too much for us, we didn’t have a big squad and struggled with injuries towards the end. But we came really close. Look at the teams Sir Bobby built, we were in Europe for nine seasons out of 10. There’s no particular moment I sit down and dwell on, but you know it’s there, so close but so far.
What was the one quality Bobby Robson had above all others and was he the best manager you played under? Carl Parrish
His man-management was top class. He knew how to get the best from his players, knew what buttons to press and got to know them very quickly. He could wield his strength, he was a really tough guy, but when he was friendly it was lovely. His face lit up and he made you feel really good through that man-management. He always used to say to me: “Whenever I pick you, you always do well.” When someone says that you feel really good about yourself. He knew what to say. But had an abundance of things that worked really well for him. His tactical knowledge, selection of players, the network he built up for the younger players to come through, so many things. He was the most complete manager in my eyes and I still think he’s the best. Wherever he went, home or abroad, he proved himself in a way no English manager has done.
What was it like playing alongside Des Walker with England? And how close were England to winning the World Cup in 1990? Ahmed Kheyre
Des was the best centre-half I played alongside for England; he was unbelievable. He prolonged my international career because he was my pace. You never beat Des Walker. He was OK on the ball, it wasn’t his strength, but he used to give it to people that had great ability in that area so he was very astute. He was very young at the time, but dependable, talked well, shouted, pulled you about, was dominant. He was one of the reasons I made it to Italia 90. As for how close we were, I think the semi-final was the best we played all tournament. As I was walking out I felt so serene, comfortable, like I was in a dream state. It was never normally like that, but I could see our boys’ faces: steely, determined, but relaxed. It was the best I’d ever felt before a game. I even successfully backheeled the ball to a teammate. It was one of the best moments of our lives. We didn’t get to the very best one, the final, but we were so close. You’re talking inches, the shot that came off the post right between Lineker and Beardsley. Beating Argentina in the final would have been the ultimate redemption.
Is it true that during your time at Rangers, the top away scorer at Ibrox was Butcher (og)? Anonymous
I think I scored more goals past Chris Woods, my own goalkeeper, than any other Scottish striker. They were crackers: pick that one out Woodsy. He was my roommate as well, so he would say: “I don’t want any more going past me.” But they were all good ones, put it that way. They weren’t just ricochets or anything else like that. Wow, they were proper own goals. If you’re going to hit it, hit it hard.
I’m a massive fan of you as a player but think I’m even more impressed by your work with veterans following the death of your son. What would be the biggest thing we could do to support veterans? Jim
We’ve got to have a specific centre for veterans, like a St George’s Park, which would be dedicated to their health and that of their families. That would be the ultimate aim for me. We need more, and bigger, facilities to focus on veterans’ mental health and respite for those around them. It would be ideal to create a military community where you’re not in service, but the families are together. It would enable the veterans to relax, get treatment, get better, get the toolbox that provides the coping mechanisms so that if something happens they know what to do and where to go. My son didn’t have that unfortunately: he stayed in his room and that was his safe place.
I enjoy my work with Combat2Coffee , which supports veterans and their families. It’s doing really well and the togetherness is great. It’s getting exponentially bigger and we’re about to open a veterans’ hub in Ipswich. It’s a special thing, you can just walk in off the street and get that support. I’m doing this because my son would have loved it, and it’s what he needed.
